Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

The Bluebell Railway at an unknown date but, I suggest, not too long after it was opened. Locos in use were A1X LBSCR 55 Stepney – see:

32655 (LBSCR 55 Stepney, LBSCR 655, SR B655, SR 2655 & BR 32655)

and LSWR 0415 No 488 – see: 30583 (LSWR 488, LSWR 0488, EKR 5, SR 3488 & BR 30583) I believe that’s the LNWR observation car next to 488 in the second and third photos. The last photo is at Horsted Keynes and the Met Railway Chesham coaches are in the background.









Last steam out of Paddington with reporting number 1M48 was the 4.15 to Banbury on 11th June 1965. The loco was Castle 7029, Clun Castle. Although details of the loco have been reported previously here they are again: 7029 Clun Castle. I believe the final photo (img465) is of the loco being prepared at Old Oak Common.











Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Rebuilt Merchant Navy 35003 Royal Mail at Waterloo and in the last two photos quite possibly on the Bournemouth Belle. The date is not confirmed. The loco was allocated to Bournemouth in August/September 1964, Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966 and finally Nine Elms in March/April 1967 where it was withdrawn in July 1967 having worked to the very end of steam on the SR. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Newport in December 1967. (BR Database).









Rebuilt West Country 34008 Padstow at Waterloo on an unknown date in the 1960s. The loco was rebuilt at Eastleigh in June/July 1960. The allocation of the loco was Eastleigh in September 1962 and Nine Elms in June 1966 where it was withdrawn in June 1967. (SLS). Although BR Database advise a scrapping date of October 1967 the Railway Observer advise it was actually at Buttigeigs, Newport on 25th September 1968. It was stored at Dock Street Goods Yard before going in to Buttigeigs in December 1967 where it was recorded many times including by the RO before scrapping.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The EMU in the 3rd photo is a 4-COR.

 

[Barry37]

The Bluebell Railway at an unknown date but, I suggest, not too long after it was opened. Locos in use were A1X LBSCR 55 Stepney – see:

32655 (LBSCR 55 Stepney, LBSCR 655, SR B655, SR 2655 & BR 32655)

and LSWR 0415 No 488 – see: 30583 (LSWR 488, LSWR 0488, EKR 5, SR 3488 & BR 30583) I believe that’s the LNWR observation car next to 488 in the second and third photos. The last photo is at Horsted Keynes and the Met Railway Chesham coaches are in the background.

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Last steam out of Paddington with reporting number 1M48 was the 4.15 to Banbury on 11th June 1965. The loco was Castle 7029, Clun Castle. Although details of the loco have been reported previously here they are again: 7029 Clun Castle. I believe the final photo (img465) is of the loco being prepared at Old Oak Common.

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Brian

The Bluebell Railway photos are all at Sheffield Park station. The last one of the Adams' tank is looking south (towards Newick & Chailey). It's a little while after opening, as there's an engine shed visible beyond the loco. When first opened, the former goods yard was an empty space used for car parking, and some overgrown sidings. The Adams' tank didn't run in LSWR livery until 1962.
I have a photo looking that way, but not sure where it is currently. This one is looking towards the station – I imagine this is the opening year, but whether it was taken on the actual opening day, I don't know. There was certainly a lot of people on the platform.
Trains at that time stopped short of Horsted Keynes, at Bluebell Halt. This was probably only one coach long, as I recall being in part of the train that was stopped on an overbridge.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The Bluebell Railway at an unknown date but, I suggest, not too long after it was opened.

The Bluebell Railway photos are going to either be late 1963 or early 1964 as the LNWR observation saloon is in the process of being repainted.

My grandfather visited the Bluebell Railway in May/June 1964 shortly after the arrival of Terrier 32636 from BR as she has retained the BR livery with the totem painted out. These are scanned from the original negatives in my collection.





'Dukedog' 9017 Earl of Berkeley


LNWR observation coach

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for both yours, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . On consideration and with the info provided by Barry @Barry37 my suggestion that these four photos were soon after the Bluebell opened is clearly incorrect. In fact I remember that the Adams Radial wasn't yet at the railway when I first visited although trains were running in to Horsted Keynes. We parked right next to the railway in the old goods yard as remembered by Barry. There were also very few cars in there at the time, a far cry from the number of people who visit preserved railways on a "normal" weekend, let alone the thousand or so who assemble nowadays for galas.

Urie S15 4-6-0 30837 at Waterloo recorded by Tim as March 1965 but probably on 4th April 1965 The Railtour Files or 2nd May 1965 The Railtour Files I believe that, despite the absence of a named head board the loco was possibly on the LCGB Wessex Downsman Railtour which ran on both the above dates and hauled the train from Waterloo to Reading General – if the loco was not on either of these trains it’s remarkably “bulled up” for any loco this late in its career.

However, there is another pair of alternatives, the S15 Commemorative Railtour on 9th and 16th January 1966, also by the LCGB: The Railtour Files and The Railtour Files On 9th January the S15 hauled the train from London to Bentley, then from Bentley to Alton and Alton to Eastleigh. Then back from Eastleigh to Waterloo. The 16th January train used the loco on the same route but there was double heading with U Class 2-6-0 31639 between Alton and Eastleigh. Before someone tells me, quite correctly, that the S15 was withdrawn in September 1965 there was special dispensation for use of the loco on these last two trains. In fact I saw and photographed the loco in wonderful external condition at Feltham on 5th December 1965.

The second pair of photos are probably at Feltham Shed.

To complete the story the S15 was allocated to Redhill in July 1951 and didn’t move to Feltham until June/July 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1965. It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in September 1966. (BR Database).









An unidentified West Country near Weybridge in July1966.



Brian

 

[chigley]

The Bluebell Railway photos are going to either be late 1963 or early 1964 as the LNWR observation saloon is in the process of being repainted.

My grandfather visited the Bluebell Railway in May/June 1964 shortly after the arrival of Terrier 32636 from BR as she has retained the BR livery with the totem painted out. These are scanned from the original negatives in my collection.

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'Dukedog' 9017 Earl of Berkeley
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LNWR observation coach
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thanks Dave & Brian for the bluebell pics

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The second pair of photos are probably at Feltham Shed.

It is Feltham.

An unidentified West Country near Weybridge in July1966.

Nice to see the then 'new' 1965 corporate image appearing.

Modellers of the so called 'transition' period 1957-1967 should take note if they are modelling the later years of this decade then the odd one, two or more blue/grey vehicles need to be included. Therefore post 1965 on Southern Region steam hauled and electric stock you would have green, maroon, blue, blue/grey and Pullman liveries.

 

[oldravendale]

Ken @chigley - delighted you like the Bluebell photos. See you at Kettering?

Thanks for yours again, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . I appreciate your confirmation of the shed location - I visited a few times but don't remember the shed entrance in detail. The condition of the West Country coupled with the blue/grey vehicle is a good guide in confirming the period.

An original Battle of Britain Pacific, 34084 253 Squadron, at an unknown location and date. In 1960 the loco was allocated to Exmouth Junction but went to Bournemouth in May 1963, back to Exmouth Junction in October the same year and finally Eastleigh in August/September 1964 where it was withdrawn in September or October 1965. BR Database record the loco as scrapped in March 1966 and the Railway Observer that it went to Buttigieg’s at Newport but WHTS report it as photographed there on 14th November 1965 and 22nd May 1966.

An interesting (or not) side fact is that the loco fell down an embankment at Hither Green in a shunting mishap in February 1960.



An unidentified Britannia Pacific without nameplates but this is probably no help in identifying it as nameplates were officially removed from most steam locos in the last couple of years of operation. The location and date are unknown.



Another two photos of 7029, Clun Castle at Southall Shed and quite probably associated with the Last Steam from Paddington of 11th June 1965. Details are in post 5627 on page 282.





Brian

 

[chigley]

catch you at Kettering Brian

 

[David B]

Vauxhall for the first photo and Met/GC north of Amersham for the second?

David

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Vauxhall for the first photo and Met/GC north of Amersham for the second?

I concur with Vauxhall for 34084 253 Squadron as she is carrying a Bournemouth West - Waterloo headcode also interesting to see the electric headcode lights are illuminated as well.

Britannias were known to be used on the Met/GC out of Marylebone in 1965 but I don't think this is on the Met/GC as the line north Amersham is heavily wooded and in either a cutting or on an embankment as we are crossing the Chilterns. In addition I would have expected to have seen the LT signalling cables which are carried 1/4 of a mile north of Amersham on their distinctive cable hangers to the geographically incorrect area known as Mantles Wood where the arbitrary LT/BR boundary set in 1961 when the Met was electrified to Amersham. The boundary marker is actually further south at the LU 87.02 km post (25.25 milepost) and is still there.

If it is on the GC then it would not be inconceivable to be north of West Wycombe or Saunderton where Tim has been known to visit. Shame we cannot read the reporting board on the loco as all I can make out it is 1x14. If the full code is known we could identify whether this is a ER, MR or WR train.

 

[John Palmer]

Doubt it will do much to assist identification of the Britannia's whereabouts, but the iron cap on the telegraph pole to right of shot looks very much like a design I associate with the L&NWR.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, David @David B for suggesting some locations and to Dave @Yorkshire Dave for continuing the thoughts. Also to John @John Palmer for throwing a bit of a spanner in the works! But we'll likely never know for certain about the location of the Britannia.

Today a set of photos which may be considered quite uninspirational but for those of us of a certain age a memory of Clapham Transport Museum which was quite a magical place when we were starved of steam.

Three photos at the old BTC Museum in the old tram depot at Clapham at an unknown date but before 1974 when the museum closed.

LNWR 2-4-0 790 Hardwicke. See: 790 Hardwicke 2-4-0 L&NWR Precedent Class In 1975 the loco was returned to steam and appeared at the Rainhill celebrations. Thereafter it was used on a number of enthusiast excursions.



SE&CR 4-4-0 No 737. See: 737 (SR A737, SR 1737 & BR 31737)



A4 Pacific 4468 Mallard. There’s been plenty written about this loco but details of the loco in preservation are here: 60022 Mallard (LNER 4468, LNER 607, LNER 22, BR E22 & BR 60022)



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I never did get to visit the BTC Museum in Clapham before closure in 1973 but did visit the London Transport Collection in the mid 1970s when their exhibits were relocated to Syon Park, before they were again relocated in 1980 to the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

A4 60034 in post #5,640 I think is at Perth shed ?

 

[oldravendale]

Interesting comments there, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . I don't remember the collection at Syon Park although I know it was there.

Thanks for yours, Col @Eastsidepilot . You may well be correct about the location. It's entirely possible and is added as an alternative.

Yet again 7029 Clun Castle and I believe all these photos are at the same time and on the same date. Tim marked two of them as “Coton Hill Shrewsbury March 1967”. Having researched I found, on Six Bells Junction:

The Railtour Files where the SLS ran two trains to “celebrate” the “Farewell to the GWR Birmingham to Birkenhead Service”. Clun Castle hauled the train from Tyseley to Birkenhead or Birkenhead to Birmingham Snow Hill. Looking at the photos and comparing with those on Six Bells Junction I believe I’ve identified the train correctly although there was another on 4th March 1967 – see: https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/670304ia.html which was one of the two Ian Allan Zulu Railtours of 4th March 1967. There was another Ian Allan train on the same day hauled by 4079, Pendennis Castle.

In the final photo note the cattle wagons behind the loco.













Brian

 

[oldravendale]

This is a loco I never knew had visited Waterloo until I saw Tim’s photos. It’s A2 60532 Blue Peter – see 60532 Blue Peter Location is certain but the date unconfirmed. However research uncovered this: The Railtour Files so I believe these photos to be the loco either backing on to or ready to leave with the A2 Commemorative Railtour which was run by the LCGB. The loco ran the train from Waterloo to Westbury where it retired short of steam and a Brit had to take over.







Castle Class 7032 Denbigh Castle in an unconfirmed location and an unknown date. The record (SLS) shows the loco to have been allocated to Old Oak Common from July 1950 although it had been in store at some time as it was reinstated in September 1964. Judging by the polish on the wheels it's still in use so, basing on the loco appearance and history I’ll suggest it’s at Old Oak in September 1964 as that is when it was reinstated and withdrawn – in fact on 28th September. The loco was scrapped in February 1965 at Bird’s, Risca.



Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73169 at Waterloo at an unknown date but late in the day for Southern steam judging by the steam leaking from every orifice and no smokebox number plate. I’ll guess 1965 or a bit later. Before moving to the Southern Region and Feltham shed in September 1963 the loco had been at Wakefield. In November 1964 it was reallocated to Eastleigh and was withdrawn from there at the end of September 1966. It was scrapped in June 1967 at Cashmore’s, Newport. (SLS). Note the 4-COR EMU in the background.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

We have a date and location for this one. It’s said to be Gresford near Wrexham in March 1967. By this date Standard 5 73097 was allocated to Patricroft where it had been since July/August 1965 and from where it was withdrawn in May 1967. (SLS). In fact I suggest that the allocation at the time rather calls in to question the location. I’m quite comfortable to believe the date as the smokebox numberplate is clearly not the original which was not unusual at the end of steam.

The loco was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge, in October 1967. (BR Database)



In consideration of the above I looked at this photo and I suspect it’s close to the same location which would make more sense although I have no way of confirming this. This is identified as near Oxenholme in July 1966 which would be a more sensible location for 73097 above, bearing in mind its allocation. The loco is Britannia 70012, John of Gaunt. It was at Crewe South from April/May 1966 and moved to Carlisle Kingmoor in August/September the same year where it was withdrawn in December 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Beighton on 21st March 1968. (BR Database).



Standard Class 4MT 2-6-4T at Waterloo in the 1960s. The loco was allocated to Eastleigh in December 1962, Guildford in March 1963 and by the time of this photo was probably at Nine Elms where it was allocated in November 1964. In fact it's clearly carrying a 70A Nine Elms shed plate. It was withdrawn in the week ending 2nd October 1966. The final deed was done at Cashmore’s, Newport in March 1967. (SLS).



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

Brian,

Taking the photo of the Brit in your last post, go back up stream until you come to your post of 23rd February where you will find a dead ringer photo of an un-identified Brit, the location and date of that earlier photo are "unknown".... at least you know now where that photo was taken.

Rgds, Graham