Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[daifly]

It is tempting to think that the 19 might be a reference to Modified Hall 7919, Runter Hall. Here's a photo taken in 1964 of 7919 lacking plates with smokebox hinges painted white (and also the dart boss - not apparent above).

Hockley Station: BR built 4-6-0 Modified Hall No 7919 ' Runter Hall' passes through Hockley Station on the down main line

Other suggestions welcomed!
Dave

 

[AJC]

I’m going to suggest what this is probably not! I believe it’s not 6998 Burton Agnes Hall as shown in post #5624 even though it bears a certain resemblance and the photo is at Southall. There is a number 19 chalked on the loco front frame but the relevance is unknown. Note 61XX 6134 behind the Hall. It was allocated to Southall from December 1964/January 1965 until August/September the same year when it moved to Oxford which was it's final allocation and gives a good guide to the likely date of the photo.

View attachment 259382

Brian

You can scrub 'probably', surely? Burton Agnes Hall had (and retains) a Hawksworth tender. Whatever this is has a Collett 4,000 gallon job.

Adam

 

[Arun Sharma]

Hmm - not convinced about 73083 being at Weybridge. Weybridge Station is in a fairly deep cutting. I suspect it might be Esher or Hersham as Walton on Thames can be excluded as it has an island platform capable of taking the non-stoppers on the centre fast lines.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I suspect it might be Esher or Hersham as Walton on Thames can be excluded as it has an island platform capable of taking the non-stoppers on the centre fast lines.

Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73083 Pendragon but apparently the name plate has been removed. The location is Weybridge and the date July 1966. At the time the loco was allocated to Nine Elms and had been there since November 1964. At the time of the photo the loco didn’t have long to go, though, as it was withdrawn in September 1966. (SLS). It went to Cashmore’s, Newport where it was scrapped in February 1967. (BR Database).

I've had a look at the NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-75 map series and this is Byfleet and New Haw as there is a signal box in the background which will be Byfleet Junction with Weybridge being the preceding station. Byfleet and New Haw is the station for Brooklands.

Upon checking the NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-75 map series Esher has an island platform and Hersham does not have a signal box.

 

[Dan Randall]

I've had a look at the NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-75 map series and this is Byfleet and New Haw.

Also, the totem on the nearest lamppost, would certainly appear to have two lines of text, as per this example….

Railwayana Auctions (UK) Ltd - STAFFORD 6th January 2016 - Lot Lot 360

Regards

Dan

 

[Genghis]

I am wondering why the black 5 is on that track.

 

[Dave Holt]

....and me.
The photo isn't quite clear enough to be sure, but there looks to be the lubricators and AWS tank visible on the foot plate and those are on the right on Black 5s. Could the photo have been printed back-to-front?
Dave.

 

[John Palmer]

In img 386 I'm seeing another of those cast iron caps to the telegraph pole which I think are indicative of LNWR origin, so I wonder whether this may be another picture taken in the Oxenholme area (see post #5659).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Standard Class 4 4-6-0s 75002 and 75029 double heading the Tallyllyn Railway Special Train of 24th and 25th September 1966 identified as 1X82 throughout. See The Railtour Files 75002 was allocated to Machynlleth from September/October 1962 and moved to Croes Newydd in December 1966. It was finally at Stoke in May/June 1967 and was withdrawn in August the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped on 28th February 1968 at Bird’s, Long Marston.

75029 was also at Machynlleth but from November 1962 and moved to Croes Newydd in March 1963, then Llandudno Junction from June/July 1965, Shrewsbury August/September 1966, back to Croes Newydd in March/April 1967 and Stoke about a month later. It was withdrawn in August 1967 and went straight in to preservation, being saved by David Shepherd, See 75029

This one is at Shrewsbury. The buildings to the left are on Oak Street.

NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-75 map series extract. Red = Footbridge and houses in background; Blue = Tim's viewpoint and Green = Google street view.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Dave @daifly for your suggestion regarding the identity of the Hall as 7919. However I have quite a few photos of Halls having painted smokebox straps and the photo you've provided shows the loco with a smokebox number plate which Tim's photo does not have. Your photo also appears to show the loco without a cab side plate which Tim's photo has and the number is also chalked on the buffer beam although that could clearly have been worn off. Your suggestion is far from impossible as the loco was based in Oxford for some time which would have made it a liely visitor to Southall. I'm adding your suggestion to the file as a "possible".

Adam @AJC . Thank you for confirming that the photo is not 6998. My eyes did not deceive me!

Arun @Arun Sharma . You are on the ball there, as confirmed by Dave @Yorkshire Dave with Dan @Dan Randall providing supporting evidence. I've made an edit change to the photo but full details will go in the accompanying file.

Thank you Dave @Genghis , Dave @Dave Holt and John @John Palmer for further thoughts about that Black 5 photo. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the photo was flopped over in scanning as all these slides are in plain white mounts if they are in mounts at all and if it is flopped it'll be the first! Therefore I'm posting the picture again here, hopefully the right way round. It doesn't improve the focus, though! With the comments from John it may even now be possible to identify a location.



Finally Dave @Yorkshire Dave I really appreciate the detail you've provided about the location of the Tallyllyn Railway Special Train. All noe in the appropriate file.

For today only one subject but two different trains.

I was there! Well I was on 26th March 1966 and took a string of photos myself as I thought (correctly) that it may be the last time I'd see an A4 in Capital Stock. In fact I won a photography exhibition with one of the photos. This is an occasion when I truly thought Tim may have caught an image of me, although he and I were yet to meet. I was on the opposite platform. The loco is A4 60024 Kingfisher carrying a 61B Aberdeen Ferryhill shed plate. The loco hauled two trains from Waterloo on two consecutive dates. The first was run by the A4 Preservation Society and entitled The Victory Railtour on 26th March and is featured in the first four photos. The A4 hauled the train from Waterloo to Yeovil Pen Mill and back to Waterloo. See The Railtour Files The train on 27th March is in the final three pictures and was the A4 Commemorative Railtour run by the LCGB from Waterloo to Exeter St Davids and return. See The Railtour Files The loco had been allocated to Aberdeen Ferryhill from 21st March 1965 and was withdrawn on 5th September 1966. It went to Hughes Bolckows, North Blyth, where it was scrapped in October 1966. (BR Database).

Note the Warship in the background of the fifth and seventh photos - a sure sign of the times at a station where steam still dominated.















Brian

 

[Dan Randall]

Note the Warship in the background of the fifth and seventh photos - a sure sign of the times at a station where steam still dominated.

There are two Warships in the 5th picture - bonus!

Edit - And the GPO Tower.


Regards

Dan

 

[AJC]

Note the Warship in the background of the fifth and seventh photos - a sure sign of the times at a station where steam still dominated.

Steam dominant? I'd reckon that there were more electric movements per hour at Waterloo than steam by then (and perhaps for a decade or two!).

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Dan @Dan Randall . I found one Warship straight away and then noticed the second one on the extreme left. It's interesting o note that one is in maroon and one in standard BR green.

And apologies, Adam @AJC . I was rather carried away by my memory of the occasion. I was rather trying to draw attention to the fact that Waterloo was still pretty much the place to go to see main line relatively long distance steam in London in quantity but you are, of course, absolutely correct.

Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75076 carrying a 70A Nine Elms shed plate at Waterloo. I believe both photos are probably on the same day. This gives a little more than a two year window for the photo as the loco was allocated to Nine Elms in March 1963 and left for Eastleigh in June 1965. It was withdrawn from there at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Bird’s, Risca in December the same year. (BR Database).





Hall 4-6-0 6934 Beachamwell Hall at an unknown location and at an unknown date. However I have a photo of a loco alongside Basingstoke Shed on the last day of Southern steam and the location looks as though it could be the same. We can also assume that the date is some time in the 1960s. The loco was allocated to Stafford Road in June/July 1960, Shrewsbury in April 1961 and Banbury in October/November 1964 where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It was disposed of in January 1966 at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge. (BR Database).



The Great Marquess, or K4 2-6-0 3442, the erstwhile 61994. My initial thought was that these were taken at Waterloo but I actually found it on Six Bells Junction and it's Victoria. Details about the loco which went in to preservation in 1963 are here: 61994 The Great Marquess (LNER 3442 & BR 61994) The train itself was "The Marquess Goes South South West" organised by Locomotive Preservation (Sussex) Ltd and the date was 12th March 1967. See The Railtour Files







Brian

 

[oldravendale]

An unidentified Black 5 at Coton Hill, Shrewsbury in March 1967.



S15s at Feltham. The first photo shows two, 30824 and 30833 and Tim advises that these were photographed in 1965. We can probably get the date a bit closer though as 30833 has no coupling rods so we can assume it’s been withdrawn which happened in May 1965 from Feltham Shed to which it had been allocated in December 1964/January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in April 1966 at Cashmore’s, Newport. (BR Database).

30824 was at Feltham from December 1963 and went in to store there in December 1964/January 1965 before moving to Eastleigh in June/July 1965 where it was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in December 1965. (BR Database).







Merchant Navy 35014 Nederland Line, the first photo at Vauxhall and the second approaching the same station quite possibly on the Bournemouth Belle. The loco was rebuilt in July 1956 when it was allocated to Stewarts Lane. It moved to Weymouth Radipole in August/September 1964 where it was withdrawn in March 1967. (SLS). Scrapping was at Cashmore’s Newport in September 1967. (BR Database).





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Rebuilt West Country 34093 Saunton backing out of Waterloo Station. Date is not known but probably mid 1960s. The loco was rebuilt in May 1960 and was allocated to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 where it was withdrawn at the end of steam on the Southern in July 1967. (SLS). It was another loco which went to Cashmore’s in Newport where it was scrapped in March 1968. (BR Database).



Unidentified Southern 2-6-0s at Guildford in January 1964.





Original West Country 34023 Blackmore Vale at West Weybridge in July 1965. It was allocated to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and from there went to Nine Elms (where I saw it on 6th July 1967) in April/May 1967 and was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam, 9th July 1967. (SLS). It then went straight in to preservation – see: 34023 Blackmoor Vale/Blackmore Vale (SR 21C123 and BR 34023)



I think this picture is improved by being reformatted in a horizontal frame



An unidentified A4 at an unidentified date and location but I suspect this was taken on one of Tim’s trips to Scotland which makes it between 1963 and 1966.



Brian

 

[simond]

I’ll let those with greater knowledge than I give a definitive diagnosis, but I recently designed a 3D model of a Caledonian signal finial, and it looks very much like that one. Then again, at that resolution it us difficult to see the details.



I can take no credit for the rest of the signal!

 

[40057]

I’m pretty certain the A4 is leaving Gleneagles heading towards Perth.

Martin

 

[JimG]

I’ll let those with greater knowledge than I give a definitive diagnosis, but I recently designed a 3D model of a Caledonian signal finial, and it looks very much like that one. Then again, at that resolution it us difficult to see the details.

It's a Stevens finial which was used by the Caledonian, but also by the North British. I have an example of this finial which was taken from Craigendoran Upper (NBR).

Jim.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Yes Gleneagles looking South. The Crieff branch was to the right of the photographer but lifted in the photo.

 

[Arun Sharma]

Rebuilt West Country 34093 Saunton backing out of Waterloo Station. Date is not known but probably mid 1960s. The loco was rebuilt in May 1960 and was allocated to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 where it was withdrawn at the end of steam on the Southern in July 1967. (SLS). It was another loco which went to Cashmore’s in Newport where it was scrapped in March 1968. (BR Database).

View attachment 259653

Unidentified Southern 2-6-0s at Guildford in January 1964.

View attachment 259654

View attachment 259655

Original West Country 34023 Blackmore Vale at West Weybridge in July 1965. It was allocated to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and from there went to Nine Elms (where I saw it on 6th July 1967) in April/May 1967 and was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam, 9th July 1967. (SLS). It then went straight in to preservation – see: 34023 Blackmoor Vale/Blackmore Vale (SR 21C123 and BR 34023)

View attachment 259656

I think this picture is improved by being reformatted in a horizontal frame

View attachment 259658

An unidentified A4 at an unidentified date and location but I suspect this was taken on one of Tim’s trips to Scotland which makes it between 1963 and 1966.

View attachment 259657

Brian

Could this unidentified A4 have been on one of those excursions to Riccarton Junction?