Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

I appreciate the confirmation, Mike @Mike Walker . I can usually easily recognise Southall but the views of the A4 above defeated me.

Then Paul @hrmspaul Many thanks for the info on the tank wagon and I'm sorry to say I can't comment on that bund. It took me years to build up the confidence to walk in to Southall shed and to the best of my knowledge and memory it was always there. Also a quick comment on the titles of the slides as you've picked them up here. In the absence of information I've made some initial notes to "start me off". Once researched these are often incorrect and corrected once I have all the data collected from my research and the comments received.

Southall again and quite likely 1965 although the date is not confirmed. Looking in the sad and despicable state of most of the locos at Southall at the time was Grange 6848 Toddington Grange which can be identified only by the chalked number on the buffer beam and cab side, the number, nameplates and shed plate having been removed. Around this period the loco had been allocated to Pontypool Road in November 1959, Worcester in January 1964 and Oxford in November 1965. It was withdrawn in December/January 1965/66 and scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in April 1966. (BR Database).








Looking in remarkably good condition although the date is not known the other locos on shed look despicable so probably around 1965 and the loco with not long to go, is 61XX 2-6-2T 6161 with, a rarity at the time, a full set of numberplates although no shed plate. Somewhat strangely 81C seemed to look after their 61XX tanks. I photographed this loco at Southall on 1st August 1965 in a row of locos thought to be withdrawn but at that time it was probably in store because BR Database advises it was allocated to Reading in May 1952 and then Southall in December 1964 where it went in to store in August 1965. It was allocated to Oxford in August/September 1965 where it was withdrawn on 1st October the same year. It was scrapped in March 1966 according to BR Database but WHTS says it was at Bird’s Risca in November 1965. There are various unconfirmed reports of it being seen after this date so a scrapping date in March 1966 may be correct.



Despite quite frequent visits to Southall Shed in the ‘60s I never saw an LMS 4F 0-6-0 there. However, here’s one of the longest lived 44560 at an unknown date but I’ll guess around 1965. This loco was allocated to Gloucester Horton Road in either November 1964 or June 1965 – both dates are given in BR Database – so I suspect there was an allocation somewhere in between. It was withdrawn on 25th August 1965. (BR Database). WHTS advises it was at Birds Long Marston on 24th September 1965 and BR Database that it was scrapped during December the same year.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Looking in remarkably good condition although the date is not known the other locos on shed look despicable so probably around 1965 and the loco with not long to go, is 61XX 2-6-2T 6161 with, a rarity at the time, a full set of numberplates although no shed plate. Somewhat strangely 81C seemed to look after their 61XX tanks. I photographed this loco at Southall on 1st August 1965 in a row of locos thought to be withdrawn but at that time it was probably in store because BR Database advises it was allocated to Reading in May 1952 and then Southall in December 1964 where it went in to store in August 1965. It was allocated to Oxford in August/September 1965 where it was withdrawn on 1st October the same year. It was scrapped in March 1966 according to BR Database but WHTS says it was at Bird’s Risca in November 1965. There are various unconfirmed reports of it being seen after this date so a scrapping date in March 1966 may be correct.

In the background we appear to have 5933 Kingsway Hall (as I can make out and any corroboration will be grateful). The latter history of this loco from the GWR Archive website Great Western Railway Hall class details is:
March 1959 shed allocation Southall.
May 1965 shed allocation Oxford.
Last shed allocation Oxford. Withdrawn August 1965. Scrapped at Bird's, Llanelly.

This places this sequence of photos in early 1965.

Also in the first photo of 6848 Toddington Grange we have a DMU in the background sporting a yellow warning panel (and white cab roof). The yellow warning panel started appearing in early 1962 which also assists with the dating.

 

[John Palmer]

44560 was the longest lived of the five locomotives built for the Somerset & Dorset at Armstrong Whitworth's Scotswood Works, thereby originating the soubriquet 'Armstrong' by which all locomotives built to the Midland/LMS Railway's class 4 design were known to S&D enginemen. The five S&D locomotives were delivered to the Joint Line in April 1922 bearing the numbers 57 to 61; largely by happenstance these orginal numbers persisted as the final digits on subsequent renumberings by the LMS and BR. Following her departure from Bath to Gloucester, 44560 returned to the S&D on 28th March 1965 to haul the Southern Wanderer excursion on a Bournemouth-Highbridge-Templecombe itinerary. She had been borrowed from Gloucester for this duty and must thus have become the last authentically S&D locomotive to traverse the line in steam (53808 subsequently sojourned at Radstock but was not returned to steam until after transfer to the West Somerset).

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for yours, Dave @Yorkshire Dave. Having gone back to the original TIFF scan there can be no doubt that the loco behind the 61XX tank is 5933 (although in the dirt and gloom it could be confused with 5955 but the original photo shows the identity as proposed by Dave). Also you must have hawk eyes, Dave as I can barely see that DMU!

Also to John @John Palmer . I was aware that a few of the 4Fs were S & D locos but I'd not twigged that this was one of them. Thank you for that interesting info all added to the file.

Modified Hall 6998 Burton Agnes Hall at Southall Shed at some time around 1965. This loco is clearly better looked after than most of those I saw at the time at Southall. Maybe this was because the GWS had an eye on it as it was eventually bought out of service by them. It was on the Southall allocation from June 1964 and then Oxford from August/September 1965. It was withdrawn in December 1965/January 1966. (BR Database). Details at 6998 Burton Agnes Hall







This is 5042 Winchester Castle right at the end of its career and stored at Southall Shed. Note that the safety valve bonnet has been “removed for safe keeping”. I don’t have a date for Tim’s photo but I took a couple of pictures of the loco at Southall on 18th July 1965. It was clearly not exactly the same day as the surrounding locos have moved but the streaks on the cylinder confirm it’s the same engine. Home shed was Gloucester Horton Road from June 1964 and it was withdrawn nominally from there on 25th June 1965. The fact that it’s shown here at Southall after the withdrawal date suggests it might have failed and, as was normal at the time, been immediately withdrawn where ever it may have been. It went from Southall to Hayes, Bridgend, where it was scrapped in October 1965. (BR Database)







I’ve studied these pictures long and hard but cannot identify this Grange at all. It’s certainly at Southall and, judging by the condition I’ll guess it’s at some time around mid 1965.





Brian

 

[Barry37]

Thank you for yours, Dave @Yorkshire Dave. Having gone back to the original TIFF scan there can be no doubt that the loco behind the 61XX tank is 5933 (although in the dirt and gloom it could be confused with 5955 but the original photo shows the identity as proposed by Dave). Also you must have hawk eyes, Dave as I can barely see that DMU!

Also to John @John Palmer . I was aware that a few of the 4Fs were S & D locos but I'd not twigged that this was one of them. Thank you for that interesting info all added to the file.

Modified Hall 6998 Burton Agnes Hall at Southall Shed at some time around 1965. This loco is clearly better looked after than most of those I saw at the time at Southall. Maybe this was because the GWS had an eye on it as it was eventually bought out of service by them. It was on the Southall allocation from June 1964 and then Oxford from August/September 1965. It was withdrawn in December 1965/January 1966. (BR Database). Details at 6998 Burton Agnes Hall

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This is 5042 Winchester Castle right at the end of its career and stored at Southall Shed. Note that the safety valve bonnet has been “removed for safe keeping”. I don’t have a date for Tim’s photo but I took a couple of pictures of the loco at Southall on 18th July 1965. It was clearly not exactly the same day as the surrounding locos have moved but the streaks on the cylinder confirm it’s the same engine. Home shed was Gloucester Horton Road from June 1964 and it was withdrawn nominally from there on 25th June 1965. The fact that it’s shown here at Southall after the withdrawal date suggests it might have failed and, as was normal at the time, been immediately withdrawn where ever it may have been. It went from Southall to Hayes, Bridgend, where it was scrapped in October 1965. (BR Database)

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I’ve studied these pictures long and hard but cannot identify this Grange at all. It’s certainly at Southall and, judging by the condition I’ll guess it’s at some time around mid 1965.

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Brian

Possibly 6833 Brockton Grange, which was there in September 1965, according to Shed Bash. There's a trace of a chalked number , which could be that, on the bufferbeam in the square of rivet heads ('Shadows" lightened using Mac Preview).

 

[AJC]

Ah, Burton Agnes Hall - a family connection there, because I think dad will have seen it at Totnes in the brief time it was there, and he and I (the small matter of 40 years ago), were hauled by it on one of the Salisbury to Yeovil and back specials, as well as watching it being turned on other occasions in that same period: I can remember the sound of it slipping on the bank towards Sherborne even now as it left a damp and cold Yeovil Junction. A dateable memory, I'd have been five...

EDIT: a shot from the year in question.

https://flic.kr/p/2k5Bbfr

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Ooh Barry @Barry37 . I hope you are correct! I've added 6833 to the photo description as a "possible". Having checked my photos I don't have one of 6833 so didn't see the loco at Southall which would have been helpful confirmation. That number on the buffer beam is really difficult to interpret, though, but it just could be. But thanks for researching.

Thank you for a personal memory there, Adam @AJC . It's all grist to this particular mill.

2884 Class 3866 at Southall Shed on an unknown date but probably in the mid 1960s. The loco was allocated to Southall in November 1964 and was withdrawn on 2nd July 1965. (BR Database). I suggest that the loco is not in store at the time of this photo so it’s in June 1965 or a little earlier.



Surprisingly still with a full set of name and number plates but no shed plate this is 6823 Oakley Grange at Southall. Late in steam days shed plates were no longer fixed to locos as they transferred between depots. The loco was allocated to Oxley in September/October 1961 and was withdrawn in June 1965 (BR Database) going to Birds, Long Marston where it was seen intact on 14th November 1965 (RO) and scrapped later the same month. (BR Database).



9F 92001 at Southall, probably in 1965 and carrying a 2A Tyseley shed plate. The loco was allocated to Tyseley in November 1962 and moved “on loan” to Wakefield in October/November 1966 where it was then allocated in December the same year. But the inevitable happened and the loco was withdrawn from Wakefield on 17th January 1967. (SLS). It went to Cox & Danks at Wadsley Bridge where it was scrapped in May 1967. (BR Database).



7029 Clun Castle – see: 7029 Clun Castle - being prepared at Southall for the British Railways “Farewell to Steam (WR)” special of 27th November 1965. Clun Castle hauled the train from Paddington to Gloucester Eastgate and return from Gloucester Central to Swindon. See: The Railtour Files











Edit: A photo in the same series but omitted:



I apologise that there will now be a short break in this thread. I've now caught up with my pre-written commentaries and need to check data on the next photos and those to follow which as I've said previously are many and various.

Brian

 

[Osgood]

Tim's colour shed scenes with the grubby GW engines are very atmospheric, Brian.

 

[oldravendale]

Tim's colour shed scenes with the grubby GW engines are very atmospheric, Brian.

Indeed they are, Tony. I hope that @Podartist79 might find them useful. However coming up are scenes of the railway before the final throes of WR steam and they are perhaps a little less depressing!

And I've just noticed in the above post that I've misrepresented 92001 by calling it 92011! I'll change the commentary imminently.

Brian

 

[David B]

I do love a 9F - 92001 is one of the handful that the WR retrofitted with a double chimney. Interestingly, it looks as if it’s now also acquired a very un-WR BR1F tender. These colour photos of Tim’s are great Brian - many thanks for all of the ongoing hard work on your part to present them in such good nick.

 

[Martin Shaw]

6833 was an Oxley engine from 19/5/62 until withdrawal on 16/10/65, it's deplorable state suggests it's not far off.
Martin

 

[Arun Sharma]

I do love a 9F - 92001 is one of the handful that the WR retrofitted with a double chimney. Interestingly, it looks as if it’s now also acquired a very un-WR BR1F tender. These colour photos of Tim’s are great Brian - many thanks for all of the ongoing hard work on your part to present them in such good nick.

I have an idea that Tim Shackleton, when editor of MRJ, wrote about that engine as "the deeply charismatic 92001" - following it being one of the first 9Fs to operate passenger services over the S&D.

 

[John Palmer]

92204 was the first 'Nine' to be trialled over the S&D, on 29 March 1960, hauling ten carriages and one LMS BG unassisted in both directions over Mendip in a rising easterly gale. This test having been adjudged a success, four 9Fs were allocated to the S&D for the 1960 summer high season; they were 92203-92206 inclusive.

92001 was allocated to the S&D for the summer seasons of both 1961 and 1962. Leaving aside 92220's somewhat dubious claim to such a double allocation, 92001 was the only 'Nine' that could claim two extended spells of 'Dorset' duty, perhaps making that the prompt for Tim Shackleton's characterisation.

92220 was assigned to Bath in August 1962 with a view to her hauling the last 'Pines Express' workings over the S&D on 8 September 1962, making her stay at Bath that year a short one of around one month only. It was surprising that in 1963, along with 92245, she was returned to Bath for a further spell at a time when heavy holiday trains had ceased to traverse the line, leaving only lightweight local train loadings comprising three or four carriages as the duties to be performed. In any case, it seems that 92001 must have taken the crown in terms of longevity of S&D allocation.

 

[Arun Sharma]

I have an idea that Tim Shackleton, when editor of MRJ, wrote about that engine as "the deeply charismatic 92001" - following it being one of the first 9Fs to operate passenger services over the S&D.

Afternote: This comes from pages 139 et seq of "Plastic-Bodied Locos" by Tim Shackleton, published 1999 by Wild Swan. For those interested in modelling 9Fs, it has details of pretty much all the class and individual variations you might want.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours David @David B , Arun @Arun Sharma and John @John Palmer for new info - to me at least - about certain 9Fs. Interesting stuff.

Also to Martin @Martin Shaw for details about 6833.

I don’t know where this was taken – possibly Taplow - but it is certainly the Cookham Manor Railtour of 17th September 1966 – see: The Railtour Files reporting number 1X85. The train was from Birmingham Snow Hill on a sort of circular route which took in Southall and Slough before returning to Birmingham. The loco is Manor 7808, Cookham Manor from Swindon Shed where it was allocated in August 1964 moving to Gloucester Horton Road in October 1964 where it was withdrawn in Deecmber 1965/January 1966. It was then bought direct from BR in December 1966. See 7808 Cookham Manor Interestingly it stopped for the open day at Taplow alongside the main line. More details are in the Six Mile Junction site above. There are also some photos a bit later of the gathering at Taplow on the day.



Not a lot known about these photos but they are clearly after 1966 when the loco was preserved and it’s now 4498, the erstwhile 60007, Sir Nigel Gresley. See: 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley (LNER 4498, LNER 600, LNER 7 & BR 60007) Regrettably I have no information about the location or date.













Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Not a lot known about these photos but they are clearly after 1966 when the loco was preserved and it’s now 4498, the erstwhile 60007, Sir Nigel Gresley. See: 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley (LNER 4498, LNER 600, LNER 7 & BR 60007) Regrettably I have no information about the location or date.

The 4498 photos are at Nine Elms. She was on a 'Southern' railtour over 3rd and 4th June 1967. The Railtour Files

Just look at the state of the infrastructure and ground - it really epitomises the latter years of steam's decline.

 

[Mike Walker]

The photo of 7808 is indeed at Taplow or to be precise just departing on the journey back to Brum. You'd be mad to stand where those guys are today and be reported by the first driver to come along!

But things were different back then. Those attending the open day were separated from trains passing at line speed on the Down Main by no more than a rope supported by a few stakes. Whilst a few idiots did breach it, nobody got run down.

 

[gateman 49]

Going back to Burton Agnes Hall's travels in the 1960s, I recorded the loco in the company of little 1363 on the Staverton Contractors sidings off the Quay Branch at Totnes on 10th August 1967 while on a round trip which also included recording the slumbering stock at Buckfastleigh on the Dart Valley Railway. As an eighteen year old I hadn't acquired any more sophisticated personal transport than a Falcon drop handle bar bike so it was a cycle ride out from home in Torquay to get there. I presumably took sandwiches in my duffle bag and I definitely had my Box Brownie camera as I took some photos on what was luckily a bright day as the camera was, of course, very basic.

 

[gateman 49]

and here is 1363

 

[oldravendale]

Some more lovely stuff here so thanks Dave @Yorkshire Dave for identifying the location and date for the photos of the A4. Also Mike @Mike Walker for confirming the location of the Manor. As I said there are some more to come of the gathering at Taplow. Then to @gateman 49 for memories of 6998 and the accompanying photos. Some of my earliest photos (and Tim's) were on a Box Brownie and in bright weather the results could be remarkably good. However, if the weather was grey and overcast the results were indifferent to say the least.

There is some information to be gleaned from this slide which is that the loco is A4 60034, Lord Farringdon carrying a 61B Aberdeen Ferryhill shed plate. I have no date or confirmation of the location but it could well be at its home shed during one of Tim’s trips to Scotland. The loco went “on loan” to the Scottish Region in October/November 1963 and was almost immediately allocated to St Margarets then to Aberdeen Ferryhill in May/June 1964. (BR Database) It was withdrawn on 24th August 1966 (LCGB) and went to Hughes Bolckow, North Blyth in October 1966 (Yeadons Vol 2) where it was observed being scrapped on 29th January 1967. (RO)





Rebuilt Merchant Navy 35004 Cunard White Star at Waterloo on an unconfirmed date. The loco had been allocated to Salisbury in March/April 1957 but moved to Bournemouth in August/September 1964. It was withdrawn from there in October 1965 and scrapped at Eastleigh Depot in February 1966 by Cohens. (BR Database)





Brian