Mystery Loco and wagon on the Portreath Branch

[Marc Dobson]

I was going though the Cornwall Railways Society website and I found this interesting photo

The caption said it was taken about 1905 on the Portreath Branch. my questions are does anyone recognise the loco type or the origin of the wagon? to me they both look not GWR but more industrial/light railways. Its clamed that it is an early excursion but there seams to be something not right with that

 

[Overseer]

The wheels, cab side sheets, weatherboard and safety valve cover look like Manning Wardle Old Class I or Class K. The semi circular profile saddle tank is atypical for a Manning Wardle but could be a replacement. It looks like there are no splashers over the wheels suggesting 2'9" wheels instead of the standard 3' or 3' 1 1/2" wheels. Just noticed (in Harman vol 2) that MW Class M (13 inch cylinders) had no splashers (3' standard wheels) and that 14 Class M are listed as having semi circular saddle tanks - the first being b/n 222 in 1866 and the last 317 in 1870. Four of the 14 had larger wheels so I would say the likely suspects are 222, 230, 238, 242, 254, 256, 257, 276, 290 and 317. About half of these went to ironworks, the others to a mix of contractors and collieries apart from one to Cardiff Docks. Probably not in original ownership by the date of the photo.

 

[AJC]

The wheels, cab side sheets, weatherboard and safety valve cover look like Manning Wardle Old Class I or Class K. The semi circular profile saddle tank is atypical for a Manning Wardle but could be a replacement. It looks like there are no splashers over the wheels suggesting 2'9" wheels instead of the standard 3' or 3' 1 1/2" wheels. Just noticed (in Harman vol 2) that MW Class M (13 inch cylinders) had no splashers (3' standard wheels) and that 14 Class M are listed as having semi circular saddle tanks - the first being b/n 222 in 1866 and the last 317 in 1870. Four of the 14 had larger wheels so I would say the likely suspects are 222, 230, 238, 242, 254, 256, 257, 276, 290 and 317. About half of these went to ironworks, the others to a mix of contractors and collieries apart from one to Cardiff Docks. Probably not in original ownership by the date of the photo.

Interesting. None of those works numbers appear in the relevant IRS volume (which might might not mean much if the loco really was in GWR ownership. It looks more like a contractor’s wagon, however.

Supposedly the image is from a postcard: Portreath branch - I’d quite like to see the back of it!

Adam

 

[Marc Dobson]

That's what I thought. Also if it was owned by the GWR then there should be a number plate on the side of the cab.
So if the date is correct at 1904/05 which would be about right with the fashion and it's not GWR then it begs the question where is it?
Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

If it's the Portreath Branch then here

Georeferenced Maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

 

[Marc Dobson]

That would have been my guess on location but for the gate and crossing. There isn't any sign on the map of a footpath, track or road anywhere nearby. Which again brings the location into doubt.
Marc

 

[Marc Dobson]

I might have solved part of my own question. The GWR opened the Blackwater junction and Newquay. There is also a photo of a 0-6-0ST being used as a contractor's loco.
Marc

 

[Overseer]

I might have solved part of my own question. The GWR opened the Blackwater junction and Newquay. There is also a photo of a 0-6-0ST being used as a contractor's loco.
Marc

I agree. Chacewater to Newquay branch. has two photographs which seem to show the same Manning Wardle Class M circa 1900 during construction of the Chacewater to Newquay branch, one near Blackwater Junction and the other at St Agnes, and another Manning Wardle towards the Newquay end so the location of the tour group photo is likely to be somewhere on the western end of the Chacewater to Newquay branch rather than the Portreath branch.

 

[AJC]

I agree. Chacewater to Newquay branch. has two photographs which seem to show the same Manning Wardle Class M circa 1900 during construction of the Chacewater to Newquay branch, one near Blackwater Junction and the other at St Agnes, and another Manning Wardle towards the Newquay end so the location of the tour group photo is likely to be somewhere on the western end of the Chacewater to Newquay branch rather than the Portreath branch.

The IRS notes the contractor (Arthur Carkeek), but simply notes an 0-6-0ST without details. It maybe that the details are known now, or more recently than the 1977 edition of their handbook H (I have the supplement somewhere), but an MW M seems likely.

Adam

 

[Mike W]

Unless I've missed it, nobody has commented on the wagon? Presumably a contractor's ballast wagon with Gloucester-style V hangers and square crown plates - not much else to identify it really?
Mike

 

[Marc Dobson]

It all points to a newly built line just before opening circ 1904-5. A contractors loco and wagon with bench seats.
If the photo is taken in Cornwall then the only line that fits the bill is the Blackwater Newquay branch.

 

[Dog Star]

Presumably a contractor's ballast wagon with Gloucester-style V hangers and square crown plates...

The hanger is in the Glos-style... the crown plates are in the Eastwood style.

 

[AJC]

I’ve found the supplemental sheets that came with my second hand copy of the IRS hand book. It could be more helpful!



Adam

 

[Overseer]

I’ve found the supplemental sheets that came with my second hand copy of the IRS hand book. It could be more helpful!

View attachment 253014

Adam

Certainly could. Doesn't rule anything out. I wonder what the other locos were, I noticed another MW and one other mostly obscured loco on the Cornwall Railway Society pages.