Let's roll - Finescale of a sort

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
The other day, while I was still grappling with the engine regulator, (and it has to be said; being rather intense about it and not taking much notice of anything or anyone else) my son (Glenn gp. of this parish) came to visit. This was in a slightly unusual fashion, as he only had a brief amount of time available to speak to his mum, so he remained seated in his car, along with the two children. At some point in their conversation, little Mr. T (aged 4) declared the need of a wee. He was ordered to be quick about it, and was taken out of the car and then brought through our house by his grandma!

The moment he came through the front door, (which leads straight from outside into the parlour - where incidentally I have my drawing board/workbench, he declared: "Grandad?!........" in a sort of combined greeting and questioning tone. As he was being hustled through the room, (a mere twelve feet or so!) he proceeded to try and convey as much information as he possibly could about what he had presumably been recently thinking about!

The vital, but burbled message rapidly faded out of earshot!

Now I am afraid to admit that being somewhat deaf, and surprised at the same time, I was only able to gather that it had something or other to with "the train"?!
Even worse; I still didn't manage to grasp it, when shortly after having done the deed and on his way back, the boy continued with the hasty verbiage! Just as he went out through the front door, he turned, and wagging a finger at me, clearly insisted:

"It must be pretend coal grandad, or you'll get all dirty!"

When they had departed, I sheepishly asked my wife what the lad had been on about?

"I don't know... he was was talking to you, so I wasn't really listening" she said!

Even though the dear lad is of such tender age, he is already showing artistic inclinations - so I decided to send a request message, via his daddy, for a "drawing" to explain the detail points. Not long thereafter, I was presented with this:

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Ah hah! A coal wagon - or even more than one - to ride on! Hence the well loaded, but necessarily pretend contents!

Such a wonderful imagination surely deserves practical fulfilment?

I have no idea what he has previously seen and based his thoughts upon, but an extensive search has provided a plausible - and entirely practical candidate:

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Here is an example of the slightly later, iron framed version...

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(Both the above images are copyright and published elsewhere, but included here for illustrative purposes only)

Although it is not entirely clear whether young Mr. T wanted bogies, or that he has attempted a degree of perspective in his drawing, with the horizontal line depicting an axle between the wheels, but the early festiniog, four and five planked "mineral" wagons, with five timber stanchions per side, would hopefully be ideal?

Even the coal load for a seat might not be such an issue:

During a conversation with my sister, she suggested using some of this incredible fabric. (below) It could be further quilted with random shapes, and stitched over a foam cushion?!

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Well worth a try anyway?!

Materials - including two new sets of wheels - have been gathered...

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and the ply has been sawn to size! A nice lightweight five mil for the sides and ends, with some sturdier 9 mil for the floors.

I feel it would be wise to build a pair, not just as an extravagant gesture, but with a slight fear that the chap might be tempted to become a bit possessive about "his" wagon - especially at family gatherings..?!

Why do I get the odd feeling that I could be falling into a bottomless pit - if indeed I'm not already in it?

Pete.
 
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Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Oh dear, I fear you are probably right Jordan! I am just hoping it is more like the Skarloey Railway, type 1, "Troublesome Truck" for entirely practical and selfish reasons!

Too late anyway, as I have now boxed up the frames and bodies for both wagons...

Here is the first one underway:

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Construction is a bit basic and rough, but I am most concerned that these wagons must be as lightweight, but at the same time sufficiently robust as possible. They are expected to come in for a bit of a pounding in regular service!

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It does still have a rather East Anglian, agricultural appearance at the moment?!

The image brings back memories of doing some work for the Downs company, illustrating some of their potato shifting equipment. Back in the day, it was a family owned business operating in the sleepy little Suffolk village of Glemsford, and the guv'nor lived in a house on one corner of the factory site!

Although I have yet to decide the precise fitting of the coal load/lid/seat, I am thinking along the lines of adding some kind of smooth lip arrangement for the top edges. I really don't want to be held responsible by any angry mummies for causing little ones to suffer splinters in their derrieres from that nasty old plywood stuff!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Right, hands up all those who thought you would never see me write the words; "that'll do" in any of my posts??

Having made up the second box, it was time to start adding the external details...

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First up, the corner angles.

While they are not a structural requirement, they are not merely decorative either. The chosen aluminium material will itself be reasonably "soft", and fairly safe for small hands, it will also cover those splintery ply edges.

All those "proper" wagon builders amongst you, my good friends, might be well advised to look away now...?!

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I know that the width of the angles is a bit on the narrow side, and the rather oversize bolts run down the middle, instead of nearer the outer edges in more prototypical fashion!

Both issues are unforced errors I'm afraid:

I really should have chosen a larger square section for the internal corner posts - but it is a bit late to change that! The 25mm angle was technically a wrong choice, but was already (expensively) acquired too. Drilling the holes in a more appropriate position would have clipped the outside of the timbers. My problem with mixing up numbers happened yet again - I repeatedly get confused with my metric M size threads!!
A very large bag of M5 bolts and nuts were picked up - instead of the intended M4's!!

Selecting the correct drill bits with a vernier still didn't alert me - Oh no! It was only after I had drilled the first line of holes that it eventually dawned!!

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Ah well, these are supposed to be roughty-toughty, biff-bash toys at the end of the day...?!

I am sure that little Mr. T wont be at all bothered, so there it is: Indeed, what's the betting he will even insist on a couple faces for the ends?!

In the meantime, that'll just have to do?!

Pete.
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Morning Pete, I wouldn't worry about the bolt sizes etc IMO it all adds to the agricultural feel of the wagons. You were aiming for agricultural weren't you...?
 

Tom Insole

Western Thunderer
I seem to have a very strong urge to make and paint one this way...

Wondering if this would then mean when alighting said wagon (loaded with coal to leave one's behind "Comfortably Numb") would mean I was 'Jumping on the band wagon'.

Obviously this would need to be coupled between your current two being made so that it's in the "Meddle".

One problem would only be where I found the "money" to fund it...

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Grabbing coat and hat as we speak......

Tom
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks to all! I have just had a good chuckle reading your replies. I cannot resist the temptation to add "Momentary lapse of reason" to the list - although the first word of the track and album title might not strictly apply?!

Glenn-gp innocently nipped round to see us yesterday evening, and promptly found himself roped in! Well he did come up with an absolutely fabulous suggestion with regard to the coal effect cushions. The special material was ordered on the spot, and others are already to hand, so expect an update fairly soon - no pressure Mr. G?!!

Meanwhile, the detailing stuff has been continuing:

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Once all the stanchions were glued and set the job got even more nutty...

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There do seem to be an awful lot of 'em on this one?! For a bit of variety, (officially?) but perhaps more honestly for the sake of any remaining sanity, I am thinking of doing the second, four planked version with the later pattern of only three, metal straps per side!

I aught to get on and sort out the top edges and removable seat bases pretty soon too.

Pete.

P.S. Tom, I should have added that this wagon building malarkey is potentially infectious!!
 

Tom Insole

Western Thunderer
Too many of those trips and the return trip will need one of these for "de..*HiCK* Railments! (all drinking aside here's the link...)


Fairly easy to give the "looks like" model with one of those tea lady hot water urn as shown here..

windy handle lift and raise action on some caster bearings and a nice sturdy boom! ;)

*hick*

Tom!
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Progress was stalling a bit until Rich came round and offered to take me out for an afternoon shopping trip. That could be described as just what the doctor ordered!

While the upper planks had already been straightened and strengthened with timber strip and ledges added for the seat lids, the two body structures only require some bolted angle plates covering the joints between the headstocks and solebars, along with half-round moulding strip for the top edges before painting can commence.

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For some unknown reason, tackling the essential running gear was giving me problems? I just needed a spur to jolt me out of a developing hiatus!

A bundle of new tube, threaded rod, a bag of M10 nuts, and four more straight brass couplers in the car boot later...

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... and production at the wagon works was underway again!!

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I apologise that the above, and following two images are not much more than a repeat performance of the design and construction previously shown in Rich's carriage thread, but I have included them here for the sake of continuity.

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These wheels and axles still look a bit crude to my rather scale oriented eyes, and indeed some nice, big, open, curly spoked jobs would of course be very desirable, but as the tough little nylon casters function well enough - and are wonderfully cheap into the bargain, there seems no reason to depart from a winning formula!

Some ideas for simple sprung axle boxes are rattling around in my head now, and I hope to find suitable bits and bobs for the task in the next few days?!

Pete.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
Wonderful Pete, I think your nylon wheels suit the job perfectly.

Inspired creative use of existing materials, the sort of thing that the "real world" has kind of forgotten about...

I am really enjoying your progress and the pleasure it is creating with other travellers on your journey, all very uplifting!

Simon
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thank you Simon.

I have always had a bit of a problem with big chunks of that real world! I sometimes wonder if I would have got this far had things turned out differently though?!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Back to the slightly more serious subject, work has been progressing slowly, but steadily. What is not helping is that I seem to be breaking nearly all of my own rules - and designing these things on the hoof rather than from previously prepared drawings!

Although the wheels and axles are tried and tested, any ideas for the actual suspension fittings were still very much up in the air until the opportunity arose for a jolly good rummaging session at a local hardware emporium! The staff are helpful as ever, and if not too busy will always ask if assistance is required. When I'm searching amongst all the racks and boxes of peculiar brackets, bolts and other mysterious ironmongery, and undoubtedly appearing perplexed, I am usually only able to reply; "thanks mate, but I won't know what I'm looking for until I find it!"

The other day, the shop was very quiet, and the only man on duty at the counter was a bit more persistent;

"Well what are you making?" he enquired.

I decided to take a chance, and confess;

"Ride on, troublesome trucks for a garden railway"

"Oh wow!" he exclaimed, "Five inch, seven and a quarter or larger?"

It seems I have found a fellow "minimum gauge" railway enthusiast in the neighbourhood!! During the following discussions on the finer points of wagon suspension types, he dashed off, then came back with a handful of various rubber tube like affairs!

We agreed on a particular size, that arranged in pairs with some 8mm wire rope clamps for the axle ends should do the trick?

The guy is a genius!

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When the thread is removed from the axle outer ends, the reduced 10mm rod would sit down comfortably and lock squarely in the clamp saddles - in the same manner as the fixed setup previously used on my tender/driving truck.
Back then, I couldn't see any possible means of providing some form of damping! The nine inch wheelbase on that tender is short enough to make little difference to the ride, but these wagons are a bit longer, and therefore I think that a touch of compensation will be essential.

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Cutting and drilling eight of these little fellas was daunting, but turned out not to be not quite such a tedious job after all?

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Only one of them decided to put up a fight...

... while another managed to escape and successfully avoid recapture by hiding under the cellar workbench for quite some time!

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I had forgotten what a faff fitting the clamps would be however - especially considering that I had been there before, and that they were not designed for anything like this purpose in the first place of course!
Not only were the saddle castings rather rough, but the u-bolts were inconsistent also - some requiring fairly brutal "persuasion" to align!

The final act was not much less of a fuss, so no photo's again I'm afraid!

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It was something of a moment of triumph when eventually the first wagon sat upright on it's wheels!

Never mind that I forgot to pop the potentially conflicting lower stanchion bolts back in. I must try and remember to shorten them beforehand as well?!

I was so exited, I couldn't resist the temptation for a (slightly uncomfortable!) load test in the glorious evening sunshine...

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It does bounce about a bit when unladen, but with no apparent risk of derailment so far. The rubber tubes don't distort on the bolts, and all four wheels seem to sit sweetly when the wagon is settled upon!

Content, I shall be having a day off tomorrow - predictably I suppose, the weather forecast is by contrast rather gloomy!!

Pete.
 
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