Hairy Bikers and Other Petrol Heads
- Thread starter Eastsidepilot
- Start date
Boyblunder
Western Thunderer
" ....probably classed as sacrilege nowadays with a fairly original T120."
Funny that Colin, I started looking at your pictures of a fine Triumph just like the one I owned in unmolested form and wishing I still had it, and thinking "sacrilege". Then I read your comment.
Robin
Funny that Colin, I started looking at your pictures of a fine Triumph just like the one I owned in unmolested form and wishing I still had it, and thinking "sacrilege". Then I read your comment.
Robin
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
" Up the Rockets".....Rayleigh Rockets that was at Stadium Way, Rayleigh, it was a regular treat for us kids in the '60's when the old man used to take us there with a couple of school mates. Len Silver I seem to remember was the manger ?
Col.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
....but then if I still had one today it would most likely be in a featherbed frame as a cafe'
racer.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
That brings back memories! I went to the world speedway finals at Wembley for many years, in the days of Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs, as well as other club meets when I could. Then there was the racing at Brands Hatch, a circuit I much prefer to Silverstone from an observer's POV. I just missed Mike Hailwood's great days but count myself blessed to have seen Giacomo Agostini who's persistent wins by huge margins made all other racers look pedestrian.
Brian
RichardG
Western Thunderer
Both the BMW and the Guzzi have the drive shaft on the right of the machine. Supposing both have a similar arrangement of a crown wheel with the pinion located towards the front, both drive shafts are rotating clockwise when viewed from the front of the machine.
On the BMW (all air cooled twins 1970 to 1985), the crankshaft is also rotating clockwise.
BMW R models 1970-1985 Engine Technical specs
This implies the BMW gearbox has three shafts.
Maybe you have the specs for the Guzzi?
simond
Western Thunderer
The Guzzi is a 1977 LeMans, but the V-twin is a somewhat older design. it has a two shaft gearbox and a single cam mounted in the Vee, pushrods and rockers. As you say, the driveshaft is on the right of the bike, and turns clockwise as seen from the front. The engine turns anticlockwise as seen from the front.
The BMW is a 2020 R1250GS with balance shaft and twin overhead (shift)cams. It has a three(well, four?) shaft, six speed constant mesh gearbox, but the driveshaft is on the left of the bike, and presumably turns anticlockwise as seen from the front.
(image from OFFICIAL | 2019 BMW R1250GS revealed
not attributed, probably BMW publicity - please remove if inappropriate)
The crucial difference is that the clutch is geared to the crankshaft, so rotates the opposite direction to the engine. As a result of which, I suspect, the bike does not veer at all when you take your hands off the bars, it just gently slows down in a spookily straight line, as I checked on my way to work this morning.
In any case, BMW probably made an app for it...
The BMW is a 2020 R1250GS with balance shaft and twin overhead (shift)cams. It has a three(well, four?) shaft, six speed constant mesh gearbox, but the driveshaft is on the left of the bike, and presumably turns anticlockwise as seen from the front.
(image from OFFICIAL | 2019 BMW R1250GS revealed
not attributed, probably BMW publicity - please remove if inappropriate)
The crucial difference is that the clutch is geared to the crankshaft, so rotates the opposite direction to the engine. As a result of which, I suspect, the bike does not veer at all when you take your hands off the bars, it just gently slows down in a spookily straight line, as I checked on my way to work this morning.
In any case, BMW probably made an app for it...
JimG
Western Thunderer
I could drive no hands on my LE Velocette and roll a fag at the same time with no problems. Mind you, looking for torque on a 200cc LE might be a bit of a hunt.
Jim.
alastairq
Western Thunderer
As an anti-new technologist and a petrolhead, albeit no longer with 2 wheels, preferring the motorcycling experience with 4 wheels....[not afeared of falling over, simply struggling to get leg over at my age.....]...anyway...
I thought the video below,[ a very recent download from the channel, and a well respected Youtuber] might be of concern to -ists of the two wheeled variety?
It serves as a warning, that not all new technology is about progress....more about money? [& the making thereof?}
I thought the video below,[ a very recent download from the channel, and a well respected Youtuber] might be of concern to -ists of the two wheeled variety?
It serves as a warning, that not all new technology is about progress....more about money? [& the making thereof?}
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Like doesn’t seem right, but in this case means “thank you” for sharing.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Self driving cars ? bad idea, I know there are some crap human beings about that couldn't drive a car to save their life but on the whole I trust a human brain more than a bloody computer when it comes to our roads.!
As for struggling to get your leg over......no comment
simond
Western Thunderer
I watched that over breakfast this morning, somebody in the Guzziriders forum had linked it.
just before getting on the shuttle and riding down the A26 to Reims.
Assuming our Canadian correspondent is right in what he’s suggesting, what worries me most is that there are technologies that will prevent this kind of accident happening but someone like Musk is apparently saying “it isn’t worth paying the money”, which might be a reasonable commercial decision, but not one that I believe he should be empowered to make. Hopefully the NTSB, DOT, and other interested Governmental bodies will give him some beneficial advice and send him on the paths of righteousness. Or someone is rich enough to sue him for enough money to make him care.
In another forum, I understood that Tesla has “never had an accident whilst being driven by autopilot”, because if it realises it’s going to have an accident, it tells the driver to take control. We’re apparently talking about needing very fast reactions here. Milliseconds, maybe tens or even hundreds of them, but still way too quick for the average driver. But it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card for Tesla.
just before getting on the shuttle and riding down the A26 to Reims.
Assuming our Canadian correspondent is right in what he’s suggesting, what worries me most is that there are technologies that will prevent this kind of accident happening but someone like Musk is apparently saying “it isn’t worth paying the money”, which might be a reasonable commercial decision, but not one that I believe he should be empowered to make. Hopefully the NTSB, DOT, and other interested Governmental bodies will give him some beneficial advice and send him on the paths of righteousness. Or someone is rich enough to sue him for enough money to make him care.
In another forum, I understood that Tesla has “never had an accident whilst being driven by autopilot”, because if it realises it’s going to have an accident, it tells the driver to take control. We’re apparently talking about needing very fast reactions here. Milliseconds, maybe tens or even hundreds of them, but still way too quick for the average driver. But it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card for Tesla.
alastairq
Western Thunderer
The excellent idea of making the driver 'responsible, AI, self driving, collision avoidance etc, notwithstanding, has to be the way forward, in my view.
But simond's observation concerning Musk's attitude is spot on.
Shades of Ford USA and the Pinto...and California....where someone leaked the memo from Ford which basically said, paying damages & compensation was cheaper than redesigning the fuel tank[location]...That's if everybody lives long enough and has the will to sue?
However, once the Courts were made aware of Ford's management policies, the compensation and damages & costs awarded against them went through the roof..
Does not bring back the riders [in this case], however. Nothing will!
Also interesting to note was the change of definition, or 'description' of Tesla's self-driving thing?
As if by removing the self driving label might change driver's attitudes? Apparently Tesla cannot call it 'self driving' in Germany, for example.
But simond's observation concerning Musk's attitude is spot on.
Shades of Ford USA and the Pinto...and California....where someone leaked the memo from Ford which basically said, paying damages & compensation was cheaper than redesigning the fuel tank[location]...That's if everybody lives long enough and has the will to sue?
However, once the Courts were made aware of Ford's management policies, the compensation and damages & costs awarded against them went through the roof..
Does not bring back the riders [in this case], however. Nothing will!
Also interesting to note was the change of definition, or 'description' of Tesla's self-driving thing?
As if by removing the self driving label might change driver's attitudes? Apparently Tesla cannot call it 'self driving' in Germany, for example.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Of all the very wealthy successful entrepreneurs, many of whom I admire, Elon Musk does seem to be a "loose cannon on deck" when it comes to running his companies. As well as the AI questions posed by the video analysis, there is also the largely ignored situation in China and D R Congo, the main suppliers of rare earth metals needed to make batteries more efficient. I only know that in China there is the accusation of slave labour, but as I am more familiar from having worked in the D R Congo, there is dangerous rogue mining of Coltan, etc. by desperately poor families adjacent to "proper" mining companies on legitimate leases. One has to wonder how careful the EV manufacturers are in buying these rare earth minerals. Lives are at stake at both ends of the EV cycle.
I will remain a petrolhead until I am not allowed to drive a petroleum based vehicle. My current drive has a diesel engine with AdBlue technology that claims to remove particulates known to pollute city atmospheres and has been around for commercial vehicles for a long time. Yet parking in London costs more for diesel engined cars than gasoline ones. Go figure!
I will remain a petrolhead until I am not allowed to drive a petroleum based vehicle. My current drive has a diesel engine with AdBlue technology that claims to remove particulates known to pollute city atmospheres and has been around for commercial vehicles for a long time. Yet parking in London costs more for diesel engined cars than gasoline ones. Go figure!
simond
Western Thunderer
I worked for a lithium ion battery maker for several years, largely due to my automotive engineering background, though ended up in consumer and eBike battery manufacture, which was very much easier, and much more profitable
I did however have the opportunity to be involved in a number of rather exciting automotive projects including the electric Rolls Royce (for which I led the battery design , and didn’t ever get a drive
) Land Rover defenders, afaik still working at the Eden project, and some others. I had the chance to drive a range of EV cars, and one motorbike, and I’m well convinced. They’re quiet, quick and comfortable, and I‘d have an electric motorbike today if they had a range of 200 miles and cost less than a small mansion. And whilst the personal investment in an electric car makes no sense at the moment, if it did, I would. My driving profile is 3 mile commute to-from work, occasional 100 mile rides out, and 300 mile weekends once in a while, and the annual family bash to the Alps. The petrol bike(s) do the commute and rides out, the diesel Discovery does the longer trips.
And I think many folks are in the same situation, even if 95% of your vehicle needs are easily managed, you’re not going to splash out big bucks on an EV if you can’t go and visit Mum at the weekend, because you can’t get there on a single charge, and a mid-journey recharge adds to the journey time, and is uncertain - will there be an available charger, and will it work?
I did however have the opportunity to be involved in a number of rather exciting automotive projects including the electric Rolls Royce (for which I led the battery design , and didn’t ever get a drive
) Land Rover defenders, afaik still working at the Eden project, and some others. I had the chance to drive a range of EV cars, and one motorbike, and I’m well convinced. They’re quiet, quick and comfortable, and I‘d have an electric motorbike today if they had a range of 200 miles and cost less than a small mansion. And whilst the personal investment in an electric car makes no sense at the moment, if it did, I would. My driving profile is 3 mile commute to-from work, occasional 100 mile rides out, and 300 mile weekends once in a while, and the annual family bash to the Alps. The petrol bike(s) do the commute and rides out, the diesel Discovery does the longer trips. And I think many folks are in the same situation, even if 95% of your vehicle needs are easily managed, you’re not going to splash out big bucks on an EV if you can’t go and visit Mum at the weekend, because you can’t get there on a single charge, and a mid-journey recharge adds to the journey time, and is uncertain - will there be an available charger, and will it work?
).
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Most petrol heads I know wont/will not convert to electric, it'll be a long time before electric takes over unless we are forced to. I called into the services on the A12 last week at Colchester, for a break heading home, and the que for the chargers was blocking the entrance into the pumps, there was nearly a punch up as the station staff came out to clear it with one electric car owner getting abusive because he thought he'd lost his place in the que.
What is ridiculous is the fact that they have used parking spaces at the station, right next to the entrance, for two charging points where as what they really need is a separate sight with a dozen of more if they were serious about it, although we get a short que sometimes for fuel it is a quicker turn round, unless it's the silly sod that fills up then spends half an hour shopping whilst their car sits on the pump !( there is no emoji for w****r )
I was there for 30 mins and only one electric car had charged and moved off whilst the rest sat wasting sparks with there air-con and stereo's going.
I pulled out in the secure knowledge that my Jeep would go all they way to Aberdeen on a tank full that only took 5 mins to fill up and it sounds as if it's got a soul when doing it
which is more than I can say for these full size Scalextric's which frankly leave me cold.Not a dig at you Simon
, just a tongue in cheek observation from an old petrol head, I find your experiences in the automotive field most interesting mate 
Col.
alastairq
Western Thunderer
I seriously looked at a UK-made electric motorcycle.
Sadly it would run out of 'juice' two thirds of the way back home from my nearest town. Thus, no good for a rural dweller. [Of the less well-off sort]
There wasn't any safe way of carrying any sort of grocery shopping either.
Plus, with a very limited top speed, and part of the journey on a NSL A road [not a lot of choice there, as it would run out f sparks even further away, should I use back lanes], meaning I would be quite exposed to the vagaries of what passes for drivers these days.
I also now think that electric isn't the complete answer..merely a stop-gap placator to the climate brigade.
The current conflict in Ukraine has exposed all the weaknesses in a lot of country's policies regarding zero carbon, etc etc..
We are simply living on pie-in-the-sky promises...
As things stand, [with the gas supply mainly] we have insufficient reliable generating capacity to meet near future needs, without recourse to fossil fuel power generation [what is gas anyway, if not fossil fuel?]
Wind & solar are too unreliable as things stand....
Maybe not even resilient enough, or defensible enough, occupying as it does, half the North Sea?
Nope, I foresee a lot of backtracking being done in respect of petrol, as various exigencies impact on our need to maintain a normal daily life[style].
LAtest from the RAC [an august body if ever there wasn't one?] is that, over the winter, if electricity costs aren't reduced or stabilised, running an EV will prove more costly than running like for like petrol.
Then there is the need to remove the incentives that have been in place to encourage those with funds, or access to someone else's funds, to 'go electric?'
To replace lost taxes?
VAT will likely be placed on a par, electricity for cars, versus petrol?
VED , currently set at a level to attract folk over to electric, will be re-set to reflect the loss of revenue....[I suggested setting it by kerb weight of vehicle, seeing as most EVs I know of are darned heavy?]
We are so used to thinking that VED is set by emissions, that we forget the real purpose of VED?
However, by the time petrolheads will be categorised alongside alcoholics and druggies, I shall be 'out of the frame'....being too old to care or worry.
As was the case when I was a youngster, the future really is the younger generations' problem....No amount of heart-rending or hair-pulling by my generation will change that.
Sadly it would run out of 'juice' two thirds of the way back home from my nearest town. Thus, no good for a rural dweller. [Of the less well-off sort]
There wasn't any safe way of carrying any sort of grocery shopping either.
Plus, with a very limited top speed, and part of the journey on a NSL A road [not a lot of choice there, as it would run out f sparks even further away, should I use back lanes], meaning I would be quite exposed to the vagaries of what passes for drivers these days.
I also now think that electric isn't the complete answer..merely a stop-gap placator to the climate brigade.
The current conflict in Ukraine has exposed all the weaknesses in a lot of country's policies regarding zero carbon, etc etc..
We are simply living on pie-in-the-sky promises...
As things stand, [with the gas supply mainly] we have insufficient reliable generating capacity to meet near future needs, without recourse to fossil fuel power generation [what is gas anyway, if not fossil fuel?]
Wind & solar are too unreliable as things stand....
Maybe not even resilient enough, or defensible enough, occupying as it does, half the North Sea?
Nope, I foresee a lot of backtracking being done in respect of petrol, as various exigencies impact on our need to maintain a normal daily life[style].
LAtest from the RAC [an august body if ever there wasn't one?] is that, over the winter, if electricity costs aren't reduced or stabilised, running an EV will prove more costly than running like for like petrol.
Then there is the need to remove the incentives that have been in place to encourage those with funds, or access to someone else's funds, to 'go electric?'
To replace lost taxes?
VAT will likely be placed on a par, electricity for cars, versus petrol?
VED , currently set at a level to attract folk over to electric, will be re-set to reflect the loss of revenue....[I suggested setting it by kerb weight of vehicle, seeing as most EVs I know of are darned heavy?]
We are so used to thinking that VED is set by emissions, that we forget the real purpose of VED?
However, by the time petrolheads will be categorised alongside alcoholics and druggies, I shall be 'out of the frame'....being too old to care or worry.
As was the case when I was a youngster, the future really is the younger generations' problem....No amount of heart-rending or hair-pulling by my generation will change that.