Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
It's when I look at threads like this that I'm convinced more than ever that my soldering is definitely in the 'comedy' category... :shock: 
Dan's S7 Workbench - 7028 Cadbury Castle
- Thread starter Dan Randall
- Start date
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- Tags
- castle class jltrt scale 7
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
If I had somewhere to run Gods Wonderful engines, I'd definitely be building them for sure, but with only a GE layout (West Mersea) to run things on at the moment, I shall have to wait a little while until I get onto the engines that I REALLY want to build... 
And on that note, I think perhaps we should stop hijacking Dan's thread... :laugh:
JB.
And on that note, I think perhaps we should stop hijacking Dan's thread... :laugh:
JB.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Dan,
In order to answer your original question about tube layout for Cadbury I felt that a check on boiler type would be in order. Castles had Standard No. 8 boilers and there were five variants of that boiler, coded HA (used twice), HB, HC and HD. For an engine built after nationalisation the choice is narrowed to the three row superheater variant (HC) or the four row superheater variant (HD). Locos of the GWR (RCTS, parts 8, 12, 13 and 14) are relevant for your chosen engine. Part 8 states that Cadbury was recorded as being fitted with a double chimney in the repair around November 1961 - that means that the engine had an HD boiler from that date... and as the engine was built with an HC bolier the question arises as to what was the boiler type at the beginning of 1961. Ploughing through the addenda of Parts 12/3/4 only gives details of periods during which engines were provided with HD boilers and dates from which engines received double chimneys. If I read the notes correctly, then an HD boiler does not mean a double chimney whereas a double chimney does mean an HD boiler. :
After exhausting RCTS I asked a question on the GWR forum and I received clarification of the boiler changes for Cadbury, sent by courtesy of Simon Carr.
from 19/5/50 to 21/12/53 boiler 7625 ( Standard No 8 3-row superheater, coded HC)
to 29/10/59 boiler 6692 (HC)
to 31/10/61 boiler 7635 (HC)
from 31/10/61 to 28/12/63 boiler 7683 (Standard No 8 4-row superheater, coded HD)
Engine No. 7028 was withdrawn at the end of 1963
.
I think that I have found an appropriate drawing for the tubes and I shall post that soon.
regards, Graham
In order to answer your original question about tube layout for Cadbury I felt that a check on boiler type would be in order. Castles had Standard No. 8 boilers and there were five variants of that boiler, coded HA (used twice), HB, HC and HD. For an engine built after nationalisation the choice is narrowed to the three row superheater variant (HC) or the four row superheater variant (HD). Locos of the GWR (RCTS, parts 8, 12, 13 and 14) are relevant for your chosen engine. Part 8 states that Cadbury was recorded as being fitted with a double chimney in the repair around November 1961 - that means that the engine had an HD boiler from that date... and as the engine was built with an HC bolier the question arises as to what was the boiler type at the beginning of 1961. Ploughing through the addenda of Parts 12/3/4 only gives details of periods during which engines were provided with HD boilers and dates from which engines received double chimneys. If I read the notes correctly, then an HD boiler does not mean a double chimney whereas a double chimney does mean an HD boiler. :
After exhausting RCTS I asked a question on the GWR forum and I received clarification of the boiler changes for Cadbury, sent by courtesy of Simon Carr.
from 19/5/50 to 21/12/53 boiler 7625 ( Standard No 8 3-row superheater, coded HC)
to 29/10/59 boiler 6692 (HC)
to 31/10/61 boiler 7635 (HC)
from 31/10/61 to 28/12/63 boiler 7683 (Standard No 8 4-row superheater, coded HD)
Engine No. 7028 was withdrawn at the end of 1963
.I think that I have found an appropriate drawing for the tubes and I shall post that soon.
regards, Graham
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Thanks very much for that Graham (and thanks to Simon Carr too!).
I wasn't aware that all the information on boilers and suchlike was out there in the first place! I look forward to seeing a tubeplate drawing in due course.
Nice to see my thread on page one again - modelling time is in very short supply at the moment, so I'm fully expecting it to drop down to page four again very soon!
Regards
Dan
I wasn't aware that all the information on boilers and suchlike was out there in the first place! I look forward to seeing a tubeplate drawing in due course.
Nice to see my thread on page one again - modelling time is in very short supply at the moment, so I'm fully expecting it to drop down to page four again very soon!
Regards
Dan
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Hi Dan,
Following on from initial post to the "Drawing Assistance" thread:- whilst the smoke tube arrangement was not normally to be found on the Frame Plan / Cross-Section drawings, the layout of the tubes is, in part, included in the "Smokebox Arrangement" drawings and several of those drawings have survived. The problem with a smokebox arrangement drawing, compared to either a boiler arrangement drawing or a tubeplate drawing, is the smokebox drawing shows, in 2D, what the eye can see/imagine in 3D... as you will see below.
So, to get you in the mood, here is a view of the tubeplate of a firebox (without the barrel) for either an HA or an HB boiler.
Following on from initial post to the "Drawing Assistance" thread:- whilst the smoke tube arrangement was not normally to be found on the Frame Plan / Cross-Section drawings, the layout of the tubes is, in part, included in the "Smokebox Arrangement" drawings and several of those drawings have survived. The problem with a smokebox arrangement drawing, compared to either a boiler arrangement drawing or a tubeplate drawing, is the smokebox drawing shows, in 2D, what the eye can see/imagine in 3D... as you will see below.
So, to get you in the mood, here is a view of the tubeplate of a firebox (without the barrel) for either an HA or an HB boiler.
Attachments
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Thank you Cynric for sorting out the order of the images.
I have been asked about the sources for the photograph and drawings. All of the images have come from different chapters in Part 1 and Part 2 of "Stars, Castles and Kings" by OS Nock, published by David and Charles.
For those with an interest in matters Swindon, and in the design evolution of Swindon's finest I recommend the above book and Holcroft's book on GWR engine practices. Whilst the OS Nock books has a reasonable set of smokebox arrangement drawings for the Castle class, Holcroft has the words and music about the development of the Swindon superheater and the combination of the two makes for fascinating reading. For the real nutters amongst us, about thirty years ago I dug up a six-tube header and a couple of horseshoe supports from the coal dump at the back of Didcot shed... those items are with the GW Trust who made the parts into a decent representation of the corresponding design of superheater element.
regards, Graham
I have been asked about the sources for the photograph and drawings. All of the images have come from different chapters in Part 1 and Part 2 of "Stars, Castles and Kings" by OS Nock, published by David and Charles.
For those with an interest in matters Swindon, and in the design evolution of Swindon's finest I recommend the above book and Holcroft's book on GWR engine practices. Whilst the OS Nock books has a reasonable set of smokebox arrangement drawings for the Castle class, Holcroft has the words and music about the development of the Swindon superheater and the combination of the two makes for fascinating reading. For the real nutters amongst us, about thirty years ago I dug up a six-tube header and a couple of horseshoe supports from the coal dump at the back of Didcot shed... those items are with the GW Trust who made the parts into a decent representation of the corresponding design of superheater element.
regards, Graham
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Hi Graham
I popped round to a friend's house yesterday for an evening of Scale7 model train talk.
Whilst there, I was trying to extol the virtues of Western Thunder to him and he caught sight of the smokebox drawings in one of your posts. He recognised them as appearing in a book in his possession and as a result, he's now lent the book to me!
l'll now be able to examine the drawings and hopefully draw up some suitable artwork. I don't have any questions as such at the moment, but would like to thank you for your input to this topic - it's much appreciated.
Regards
Dan
I popped round to a friend's house yesterday for an evening of Scale7 model train talk.
Whilst there, I was trying to extol the virtues of Western Thunder to him and he caught sight of the smokebox drawings in one of your posts. He recognised them as appearing in a book in his possession and as a result, he's now lent the book to me!
l'll now be able to examine the drawings and hopefully draw up some suitable artwork. I don't have any questions as such at the moment, but would like to thank you for your input to this topic - it's much appreciated.
Regards
Dan
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Scale7JB said:Dan, looking at those drawings, I bet you wished I had kept my smokebox door shut now
Although, If you were to make up some masters then cast off multiples, and etch the tubeplate, you could sell a cracking superdetail kit...!
JB.
But only if you were to do the parts for the Std. No.1 boiler as a No. 8 tubeplate is too big for a Star!
regards, Graham
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Dan Randall said:I popped round to a friend's house yesterday for an evening of Scale7 model train talk.
Whilst there, I was trying to extol the virtues of Western Thunder to him and he caught sight of the smokebox drawings in one of your posts. He recognised them as appearing in a book in his possession and as a result, he's now lent the book to me!
I trust that you have been lent Parts 1 and 2 so that you can appreciate the true beauty of the Stars! Being serious for a moment, it is not just a tubeplate that you will have to make for Cadbury... 'tis the whole shooting match of header, elements, blastpipes, steam pipes not to mention "petticoats" ;D.
We shall all be watching this modelling tour-de-force, when are you going to start?
regards, Graham
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Scale7JB said:Dan, looking at those drawings, I bet you wished I had kept my smokebox door shut now
Although, If you were to make up some masters then cast off multiples, and etch the tubeplate, you could sell a cracking superdetail kit...!
JB.
Well yes and no....!
I guess if I do go the whole hog with the smokebox innards, running a few castings off would be a very sensible option. I'll want at least one more Castle and I like to think you'll be building one at some stage too...
By the way, when do you expect your tubeplate etches back?
Regards
Dan
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
I've just borrowed Part 2 at the moment Graham, as that had the drawings I was interested in.
I do like the Stars, but they don't quite fit in with my timescale, so the chances of me building one are somewhat remote. Never say never though.
As for when I'm going to start, I don't know! With a three week old baby to attend to, modelling time is even scarcer than before (Boxing Day was my last session!), but I'm hoping to find enough TurboCAD time here and there, to make a start on the tubeplate. That'll be the easy part.
Regards
Dan
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
The SDK does look a bit tasty Ozzy and it's mainly down to cost reasons that I haven't bought one so far. I'm not ruling it out altogether though.
Regards
Dan
Regards
Dan
