Scale7 JB Workbench.

[oldravendale]

How I agree with Mickoo - "it's a toy train". Nevertheless, as Mick has pointed out previously, historical accuracy is, in our world at least, important. However, cab interior colours have irked me every time I've painted a loco. The evidence suggests it's all a bit random.

This picture of a Hall immediately out of works at Swindon in May 1959, even though black and white, rather proves the point. There is no evidence of a white roof, nor is there evidence of a colour or brightness change between the lower and upper parts of the cab sides. I can't tell you whether the interior of the cab was the same as the body colour but it might have been. In 1959 there was still a lot of care being applied to the finish of locos and I suspect that a white roof would have been applied if it was the "norm".

Equally I know that there were locos coming out of Eastleigh at around the same time with a red oxide or burnt sienna cab interior from the waist up - it may only have been the Radials but I suspect not.

Photo is my copyright - I was there! My memory for the colour of the cab has long been erased.



Brian

 

[Easterner]

Then maybe we can get back to the D16!! The thought of writing the instructions still fills me with dread!

Yes Please.....I guess you may need someone to test build a standard 0 gauge (Not S7) one too......

 

[mickoo]

How I agree with Mickoo - "it's a toy train".

Since erased I'm afraid, I am intolerant to those who proclaim fairy tales and myths as truth as much as I am those who proclaim they never saw it so it never happened despite conflicting evidence, both are in the same camp as far as I'm concerned.

There is no hard and fast evidence about cab painting, so frankly you can paint your cab whatever colour you choose to use as a reference and if anyone proclaims you're wrong, then smile politely and walk off, they possibly have no more evidence against than you do for.

Given what I've read and seen in documentation from works drawings, I think Crewe and Derby would have generally followed the BR criteria, Swindon is a law unto itself so they don't count , but my understanding is that the whole cab was the same as the exterior and where green then the roof was black. Doncaster I believe followed a similar trend but have a niggle the cab roof was white but cannot find proof yet and I suspect that may only have been express or mixed traffic engines.

Regarding white cab roofs turning black, I agree but before anyone makes that assertion check the outside of the loco first, as modelers we do so like clean models in almost ex works condition don't we.

I mean it'd be ludicrous to paint a cab roof white on a heavily weathered engine, but perfectly acceptable to paint the whole or part of the interior black on a works clean engine that might actually be otherwise.

I wasn't there but it would have made no difference, I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone something 55-65 years ago.

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian's photo of the Hall shows that the Western didn't necessarily follow the BR specification. However, there are various published in-cab photos which show that at least LMS and BR Standard locos did have white(ish) cab roofs when ex-works. They wouldn't stay that way for long in service.
That said, all my models have black roofs inside as they are meant to depict well used locos in the mid to late 1950s.
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

I'll put my hand up..... I've usually painted interior cab roofs and sides above waist high cream - unless it's SR when it's burnt sienna (I bet the works staff applying it called it something else, like baby poo).

I have the benefit of having been there in the day. It makes no difference as there have been quite a few breakfasts between then and now.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

Sorry JB for bombing your thread like that - I really should have known better, and that my livery comments were bound to cause a bit of trouble!

Looking forward to more of your workbench updates now!

Pete.

 

[Scale7JB]

Right so back to black it is!

Had a curious moment thought. The yellow/cream was thinned enamel brush painted on to the Halford rate can black. So thought then I’d spray the Halfords acrylic over the yellow in the tender cab, that’ll be okay….

No.

All the enamel crazed and lifted almost immediately! Didn’t take a pictures sadly but it really did come up. Only one thing for it…



Coming along now though..



JB.

 

[chigley]

what solvent did you use to strip it JB

Ken

 

[Scale7JB]

what solvent did you use to strip it JB

Ken

Hi Ken, the original black was just Halfords rattle can again, so just used plain old cellulose thinners.

Needed two goes, first bath got the first 90% off, then a second pour got the remainder off.

It’s the Epping Ongar gala next weekend, not rostered for a couple of the days even though I’ll be there so going to take a couple of projects with me. Need to strip the two recent Rio Grande Acquisitions, the C-48 and the K-36, so if anyone can recommend a decent paint stripper I can dunk them into for a couple of days…

JB.

 

[chigley]

thanks, i've had halfords paint do the same to railmatch aerosol as well. what about brake fluid,but I don't know what the reaction time
would be though

Ken

 

[Scale7JB]

thanks, i've had halfords paint do the same to railmatch aerosol as well. what about brake fluid,but I don't know what the reaction time
would be though

Ken

I could be wrong, but I’ve heard a few times that spiteful vandals use brake fluid on cars because you can never get it off.

Be interesting to hear what the science behind that might be.

JB.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I could be wrong, but I’ve heard a few times that spiteful vandals use brake fluid on cars because you can never get it off.

Be interesting to hear what the science behind that might be.

JB.

Brake fluid in the old days was a way of taking the paint off of anything belonging to, shall we just say ' mis-behaving people' but I have a feeling that the modern day stuff is more friendly, chemically, and might not work as a paint stripper.

Col.

 

[chigley]

most brake fluid is water soluble

Ken

 

[Linton]

Quick video from tonights Masborough work party. Happily trundled round for a good hour or so.

JB.

That is fantastic. So good to see a DPMS Z12 stretching it’s legs. I only have three meters of S7 track for mine to run on.

The Mark Wood wheels are beautiful aren’t they. I had to buy three full sets to make it worthwhile to have the patterns created. One set is destined for my Z13 build.

I am now in the process of getting some parts cast for mine so more time will pass until complete.

Linton

 

[Linton]

That lubricator casting looks familiar. Does it fit under the cab roof. It didn't on the 50 class.

John

Hi John,

I am getting a more prototypical lubricator cast. I can send you one over once complete.

Linton

 

[Linton]

Quick video from tonights Masborough work party. Happily trundled round for a good hour or so.

JB.

Hi JB,

Just wondering what radius curves you have the Z12 running around in the video?

Also, what species of timber did you use for the front buffer beam? It looks great.

Linton

 

[Oz7mm]

Linton

From memory I think I cut the buffer beam from lime (boxwood).

I'd be grateful for the lubricator. Thanks

What livery will your Z12 be in?

Regards

John

 

[Linton]

Linton

From memory I think I cut the buffer beam from lime (boxwood).

I'd be grateful for the lubricator. Thanks

What livery will your Z12 be in?

Regards

John

Will do, John.

I am modelling 1243 with DUBs tender No. 156. As you know 1243 was painted green in 1955. I don’t particularly like green engines and to be honest, the lining included on the green scheme is out of my capabilities. If green, I was thinking of sending it to Warren.

Most likely I will paint it pre 1955 black, heavily weathered. Tender 156 was paired with 1243 from 1942 until the 60s so it’s period correct.

What colour will yours be?

Linton

 

[Oz7mm]

What colour will yours be?

Linton

It was originally intended to be black but the combination of loco and tender as 1210 means it will be Vintage Train green. As anything else will be black it seemed like a change and it would be a shame to over weather Jonathan's handiwork. Now I need to build the vintage train.

Regards

John

 

[Scale7JB]

That is fantastic. So good to see a DPMS Z12 stretching it’s legs. I only have three meters of S7 track for mine to run on.

The Mark Wood wheels are beautiful aren’t they. I had to buy three full sets to make it worthwhile to have the patterns created. One set is destined for my Z13 build.

I am now in the process of getting some parts cast for mine so more time will pass until complete.

Linton

Very nice Linton,

I think you may have to get the two locos together one day!

JB.